Home › Forums › Open Discussion › RANT: Does anyone else think this is just wrong?
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August 17, 2008 at 10:42 pm #587795
RainyDay1235Memberhttp://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/08/17/egypt.septuplets.birth.ap/index.html
Babies are not puppies, and 70 is just an irresponsible age to give birth. I realize the need to have a boy is very important in many cultures, but this cannot be the answer.
This trend is increasing at an alarming rate. Of course, the US (Hollywood in particular) is the probably the biggest culprit. Is it too simple of an idea to think that if you are infertile, that is a sign you are should look into adoption?
Note, people who buy “bred” dogs also drive me crazy. I worked an adoptathon Saturday and not a single cute, playful, sweet dog found a home. Sad.
Stepping down off my soap box now….
August 17, 2008 at 10:59 pm #634450
JanSParticipantwe here, in this country, don’t understand the thinking in other countries that puts male children above female children, especially the poorer cultures where they can barely keep a roof over their heads. My thoughts on these two mothers: The first one may not live long enough to see her new children grow up. And if both mother and father pass away, who will care for these children? The “not so important” female children who are already grown?
And, the woman in Egypt – my first thought was…what if all seven children had been female?(the gods must hate us?) They have more? and more? The husband can’t afford to feed the children he already had…just amazing.
August 18, 2008 at 1:47 am #634451
AnonymousInactive“Note, people who buy “bred” dogs also drive me crazy.”
I have never turned down a animal, bred or otherwise, from iguana to feral cats. They ALL need a home. And yes, I have even “bought” a puppy as a specific companion, to a specific shelter dog.
Can I respectfully request that our attention be directed at the people who carelessly refuse to alter their pets, as opposed to those people who provide a home for one, no matter where they came from.
August 18, 2008 at 1:55 am #634452
JimmyGMemberEven if I find it personally distasteful, I’m rabidly pro-choice and with that stand comes the belief that the right of women to CHOOSE how and when they want to have children (or not) is for them to make and not society’s.
August 18, 2008 at 2:11 am #634453
charlabobParticipantJimmyG, thank you for telling me what disturbs me about this topic. The right to choose includes making decisions that I might, personally, disapprove. Once the state is allowed to make the rules, it’s a slippery slope, and slopes only go one way — down.
August 18, 2008 at 3:08 am #634454
herongrrrlParticipantThank you, JimmyG. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
August 18, 2008 at 3:24 am #634455
JanSParticipantI totally believe that this was these families choices. And, yes, we cannot allow the “state” to make choices for us, whether here or in another country. I can still look at this and shake my head. Being able to give birth has not a thing to do with being a good, effective parent, whether here, or in India, or in Egypt. I’m 61….would I elect to have a child 9 years from now for , gee, I dunno, a somewhat selfish reason to satisfy some need inside me? I’m glad that I have the choice, but…are we nuts here? ;-)
August 18, 2008 at 3:53 am #634456
JoBParticipantJanS..
i am glad i don’t have that choice.. having somehow misplaced the equipment some time ago;~)
i can’t imagine what possesses women that age to give birth… but grandmothers and great grandmothers often raise children… so i suppose she may as well be raising her own…
there is a huge surrogate business in india.. somehow i think if i was going to cook a baby with hubby’s sperm and someone else’s eggs (not likely to be her own).. i would cook it in a human incubator…
but heck… who knows.
However, one thing i do know is that starting out life at 2 pounds isn’t the best start…
August 18, 2008 at 4:22 am #634457
WSBKeymasterI’m expecting to live to at least 95. Given that, I could theoretically have a child at 70 and plan on seeing it to adulthood. (Although how in the world can you ever count on anything? You can have a kid at 22 and get hit by a truck at 22 1/2 and then that child is just as motherless as the child of a 70-year-old who dies at 71.)
I was 36 when our son was born and I can’t imagine having had him any earlier … sometimes I think I was *still* too young, as I’m not sure that 12 years later I possess the real wisdom to raise a tween/teen and maybe I never will, too late now.
As a wise friend of mine said way back in college, “Age is but a number.” – TR
August 18, 2008 at 7:17 am #634458
JanSParticipantTR…you are so right about the age thing. I had my daughter at age 33, although I started trying years before ( another story)…I’m 61 (41 inside),, she’s 27….and we have a great relationship, time, etc. I was no where ready when I was in my early 20’s. And now I can live vicariously through my daughter’s children, when and if she has one (some?) of her own, thank-you very much. If I had a child now, I’d be 75 when he/she is 14…argghhhh! I’d probably forget that I had one – lol..
August 18, 2008 at 5:54 pm #634459
RainyDay1235MemberI too am all for government staying out of my womb – I just needed to vent my personal frustration at people’s choices within such freedom – not to mention the Dr’s who encourage it!
JT – Regarding animals, that was my mom’s reasoning too – they all need a home. True – but please keep in mind that once you BUY a bred animal, you are encouraging the people to (force)breed their animals again…and again…and again.
Not only does that money keep their ‘business’ alive, that precious spot in your home is one more taken up that could have been given to a needy shelter animal that will likely put down. Just another way to think of it…
August 18, 2008 at 7:00 pm #634460
AnonymousInactiveRainyDay1235, I do think of that all the time. And have a lifetime of putting it to practice (shelter/rescue adoptions). I understand that demand has to be stopped before the supply will be. Perhaps stigmatizing dog purchasers is one way to go, but I prefer educating, all the way around.
It seems responsible breeders are not the overwhelming cause of over-population. Irresponsible owners who won’t fix their animals are a much bigger culprit. And just as an aside, all of my adoptions have resulted in caring for severely traumatized animals. Not horn tooting, just saying, that it requires a tremendous amount of time and effort that not everyone is able or willing to make.
In the end, I think we can agree that the the goal is to eliminate the existence of unwanted animals. And to that end, I appreciate your passion and willingness to volunteer your time.
August 18, 2008 at 7:26 pm #634461
JoBParticipantboth of my dogs came from other people who couldn’t or wouldn’t care for them… as have my past dogs. Each of our adopted pets have come as the result of human abuse.
and for the most part, i have paid substantial sums to take them on.. and even more substantial sums afterwards to give them the kind of life they deserve.
as JT has said, responsible breeders are not the problem.. none of my pure-breds came from a responsible breeder…
The biggest problem is that irresponsible pet owners drive up demand by paying outrageous amounts of money for pets that they neither have the time or resources to take care of properly.. and then dump those pets on rescue organizations or humane societies…
I agree with JT, our greatest need is for education.
We don’t educate on how to properly raise and train our children..let alone our pets. Both take a substantial investment of time and resources….
There are a lot of ways to make a difference.
Taking those who are most difficult to adopt and giving them the security to live the lives they deserve is the path JT and I and our families have taken.. but it is only one.
RainyDay1235s volunteer work is another.
Working towards better laws governing the buying and selling of animals is another.
But the one that will ultimately make the most difference is taking the time and effort to be a responsible steward of the pets you choose to include in your family… and sharing that experience with others.
if you do that, there will be less need for volunteers like rainyday1235 in shelters and for people like JT and I to take on the “problem animals”… and less need for more restrictive laws and enforcement.
I only hope that older parents who have children well past the expiration date on their biological clocks have given as much thought to raising healthy children as they have to their need to create biological replicas of themselves.
August 18, 2008 at 7:38 pm #634462
HPMemberRainyday, I bought a bred dog. But I spent months searching petfinder.com first for the specific dog that I wanted with no luck. I now have an 11 month old puppy and have said from the beginning that I will also adopt a dog as soon as mine is through puppyhood. I can only handle one new dog or child at a time, my oldest daughter is 10 next is 6 and puppy at 11 months, getting a puppy is pretty much just like having a baby if you are a responsible dog owner and I want to keep my sanity. So while now I only have a bred dog I will have an adopted dog in the future and you wouldnt know that if you just saw me walking down the street with my dog. Im just sayin that you dont know the story or the intentions of all of those who buy bred dogs. So I would hope that you would not just throw me into the category of someone who drives you crazy just because I own a bred dog :)
August 18, 2008 at 9:57 pm #634463
RainyDay1235MemberAll valid points, thank you. And JT and JoB, I agree 100%. I too have a (special needs) dog and one that would have most certainly been put down otherwise. She was afraid of any human contact whatsoever.
How anyone could harm a defenseless animal is beyond my comprehesion. But the damage is done and she will never be “normal” – but within the confines of our home and yard she is a joy! I wish I could buy a farm and adopt them all, but we do what we can! :)
August 18, 2008 at 11:37 pm #634464
AnonymousInactiveRainyDay1235, thanks for sharing your baby. Those eyes! You probably already know this, but WSB has a flickr page for pets if you want to upload more.
August 19, 2008 at 2:46 pm #634465
JoBParticipantRainyday1235…
“within the confines of our home and yard, she is a joy”
i think that sums it up for all of us who adopt the unadoptable pets…
yesterday i watched yuki get overexcited.. and he chose to go find a ball and ask for play instead of doing his berserker thing.
my heart overflowed.
August 20, 2008 at 9:35 pm #634466
SueParticipantI used to think it was wrong to have children when the parent was so old, but then realized it comes down to the freedom of choice that I fight for in reproductive freedom – I cannot make anybody else’s decisions for them on what’s right.
My stepbrother is 46 years old and has an irreparable heart disease. He was told 10 years ago that he’d be dead “any day now” but is still here. When he and his wife decided to have children, he was criticized greatly. Meanwhile, my mother died unexpectedly at the age of 39, leaving 4 children under the age of 13. Nobody knows what the future may bring or how a decision affects another. I chose not to have children because I was commuting 4 hours a day for work and would’ve had my child in daycare 13 hours a day. While it was the right decision for me, I would never tell someone else they were a bad mother if they chose otherwise.
As for “designer dogs,” my best friend had many “mutt” dogs growing up, all from the pound, when he lived in a house. But when he moved into a 220 square foot Manhattan apartment, he wanted a dog, but needed something very small. So he paid for a minpin. But he said that he’d always choose the pound dog if he could – you just can’t plan on how big they’ll get for his circumstances, and he wanted to be responsible and keep the dog, not give it away because it was no longer convenient. So it’s not always status that works in that decision.
I guess what I’m saying is that everybody has to do what works best for them, depsite popular opinion. People are going to talk about your decisions no matter what you do anyway. :)
August 20, 2008 at 9:55 pm #634467
charlabobParticipantMy parents were 47 and 44 when I was born (an accident?) I swear they were too young. I was the only child they or their friends had ever known. Talk about being just a bit self-centered. But, if they hadn’t done it, you wouldn’t have me. So, whatever.
I “bought” a pedigreed springer spaniel puppy for my first husband when I was going to have nonthreatening surgery. So he’d have someone in case I didn’t make it. (OK, I’ve always been a drama queen.) I made it, six months later he left and I was stuck with an incredibly neurotic dog with papers for the next ten years.
Sue, you are so right — people are going to talk. Period. So, to quote, um, me — whatever! :-)
August 21, 2008 at 4:22 pm #634468
JoBParticipantLOL charlabob…
i love hearing about your drama.. not sure i would want to live it… but who knows. it has probably been very interesting.
i love the chinese curse.. may you live in interesting times… i think interesting circumstances just produce interesting people.
I got my current dogs because hubby had once met one he liked.. and no wonder.. it turns out that a shiba was his first dog in japan…
what is good for a little boy is not exactly what works for a grown man.. but i think it may be bringing the boy back out in him:)
i bet even your neurotic dog had high points.
and yes.. we might as well do what we want because we aren’t going to get any brownie points for doing what everyone else wants.
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